GeForce 3D Vision: Stereoscopic 3D From NVIDIA
by Derek Wilson on January 8, 2009 2:30 PM EST- Posted in
- GPUs
The NVIDIA Experience, Look and Feel
Oh this is such a mixed bag. Much of this is going to be personal preference, so this feedback is mine combined with that of family and friends who came to check it out. I like numbers, but this really is more of an experience type of situation, and I'll do my best with it.
When it works it works really well and looks simply amazing. It's simple to adjust to a degree that is comfortable and doesn't cause huge amounts of eye strain. Because you do have to focus on objects at different depths, your eyes are working harder than when playing a normal game, and it forces you to do more looking at things rather than using your peripheral vision and just reacting like I often do when gaming. When it's done right (especially with out of screen effects) it fundamentally changes the experience in a very positive way.
But ...
In many games we tested there were some serious drawbacks. Even games that NVIDIA rated the experience as "excellent" we felt were subpar at best. Fallout 3 had some ghosting effects that we couldn't fix, and it just didn't feel right for example. Games with an excellent rating most of the time still require reducing some settings to a lower level like FarCry 2 where the lower quality shadows really take away from the experience. If anyone is going out of their way to buy a 120Hz LCD panel, a high end NVIDIA graphics card and a $200 bundle of active shutter glasses, they are not going to be happy when told to reduce any quality settings. But thats just how it is right now.
Other games, like Crysis Warhead, that received a rating of "good" were nothing if not unplayable with stereoscopic effects. Even turning shadows, shaders, postprocessing, and motion blur and using NVIDIA's stereo crosshairs didn't help when there was any fire, smoke, explosion, or water anywhere around. When those effects pop up (which is all the time) everything goes to hell and you can't focus on anything. It just destroys the experience and you get reduced image quality. A great package.
NVIDIA has said that they are still working with the profiles and with developers to help improve the experience. They have been and are trying to get developers to add stereo friendly effects to their games through patches, but that's just not in the budget for some studios. But NVIDIA needs to be more realistic with their rating systems. At this point, we would recommend taking a look at any game not rated excellent and just writing it off as something that won't offer a good experience. Then take the games rated excellent and assume you'll either have to disable some effects or live with some minor annoyance in a good many of them. For ratings to be taken seriously they need to be accurate and right now they are just not telling the right story.
RTS like Age of Empires or games with a 3/4 view tend to look the best to me. There is a fixed depth and you don't need to do lot of refocusing, but the 3D really grabs you. It actually looks a bit like one of my daughter's pop-up books, but infinitely cooler.
First person shooters are sort of hit and miss, as one of the best looking games was Left 4 Dead, but large outdoor environments like in Fallout 3 can degrade the experience because of the huge difference in actual depth contrasted by the lack of stereoscopic depth at extreme distances: you can only go so deep "into" or "out of" the monitor, and big worlds just aren't accommodated.
Simulation games can look pretty good and Race Driver GRID worked well. It would be nice to keep shadows and motion blur, but the tradeoff isn't bad here. The depth actually helped with judging when to start a turn and just how close other drivers really were.
The two effects that stand out the best right now are the out of screen effects in World of Warcraft and the volumetric smoke and lighting in Left 4 Dead. In L4D, fire the pistol real fast and you can see the smoke pouring out of the barrel curl around as if it were really floating there. Properly done stereoscopic volumetric effects and out of screen effects add an incredible level of realism that can't be overstated. Combining those and removing all problems while allowing maximum image quality would really be incredible. Unfortunately there isn't anything we tested that gave us this satisfaction.
We do also need to note that, while no one got an instant headache, everyone who tested our setup felt a little bit of eye strain and slight pressure between the eyes after as little as 15 minutes of play. One of our testers reported nausea following the gaming session, though she happens to suffer from motion sickness so this may have played a part in it. Of course, that's also very relevant information as no one wants to take dramamine before gaming.
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marc1000 - Thursday, January 8, 2009 - link
I had one of these... and I had it with the 3d glasses!!! it was a 8bit console, with bad-looking games, the 3d glass was conected to the console via a cable, and the pace of changing the eyes was so slow you could se it if you pay enough attention. but it worked. and worked with any simple TV out there. however it was only FUN, no good images in reality... it's nice to see this technology come back to life!JonnyDough - Thursday, January 8, 2009 - link
60hz should be the MINIMUM. Not the STANDARD. Even @ 60hz you tend to get a good bit of eye strain. I don't know how the monitor/tv industries get away with the mere 60hz. I for one STILL get headaches. Doesn't anyone else?ViRGE - Thursday, January 8, 2009 - link
On an LCD? No. Which is why all this talk of strain is silly; the strain was a product of the flickering in a CRT, there's no reason anyone should be straining on a LCD.PrinceGaz - Thursday, January 8, 2009 - link
120hz LCD panel is probably enough to say where your testing went wrong and your problems with ghosting and other issues began.You must use a display with a native almost instant response, and no LCD panel to date can provide that (regardless of how much overdrive is given to nasty poor-quality but fast-response TN panels). You should have went old-school and used a high-quality CRT at 120hz refresh-rate, like many pro-gamers still use, or if available an OLED display as they would also be able to cope properly with 120hz refresh. Hell, I've got an old 15" CRT sitting on my desk which is capable of 640x480 @ 120hz which would almost certainly have done a better job of testing your 3D goggles than whichever LCD panel you used.
Ghosting would almost certainly have been a non-issue with a CRT running at 120hz, and having the left and right-eye images not having some of the other eye image also still visible (because of LCD response-time) would almost certainly have made it look a lot better.
DerekWilson - Friday, January 9, 2009 - link
Not that kind of ghosting ... it didn't have to do with the panel -- everything looked fine on that end. I'm using the samsung 5ms 120Hz 1680x1050 monitor. the image looked smooth.after talking with nvidia, it seems the ghosting issues were likely from convergence being off (where the look at points for each eye camera are set) causing problems. convergence can be adjusted with hot keys as well, but i didn't play with this.
eye strain didn't appear to be from flicker either -- it's more about the exercise of focusing on things that aren't there ... tweaking the depth (separation) and your distance from the monitor can make a big difference here. a CRT would not have made a difference. i do have a sony gdm f520, but its just not at the lab ...
ssiu - Thursday, January 8, 2009 - link
Yes you can use the NVIDIA glasses with analog CRT monitors with 100Hz-120Hz refresh rate.ssiu - Thursday, January 8, 2009 - link
Anyone interested in this should also check out and compare it with the competitor solution from iZ3D http://www.iz3d.com/">http://www.iz3d.com/ The 2 solutions each have their pros and cons, but iZ3D is significantly cheaper (MSRP $400 versus $600 ($200 glasses + $400 120Hz monitor)). iZ3D works with both ATI and NVIDIA video cards, and ATI users get an extra $50 rebate.simtex - Thursday, January 8, 2009 - link
This looks very promising, if nvidia really want to push this rather old technology forward again I'm sure they can do so.OpenGL have had built in support for the buffers you need to create stereoscopic images for years, in fact since version 1.1 if im not mistaken, so that is really no excuse for developers not using it.
And the suggestion that nvidia should just make a 3d monitor, what technology do are you refering to here, because as far as I know there is no technology capable of creating 3d images on a tradiional flat 2d monitor.
crimson117 - Thursday, January 8, 2009 - link
I can only find one, and it's bundled with these glasses :)http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtool...">http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications...904&...
ssiu - Thursday, January 8, 2009 - link
The other announced 120Hz monitor is Viewsonic VX2265wm.http://www.viewsonic.com/company/news/vs_press_rel...">http://www.viewsonic.com/company/news/vs_press_rel...
http://www.viewsonic.com/products/desktop-monitors...">http://www.viewsonic.com/products/deskt.../lcd/x-s...